Martin Stellar - Coach & Consultant for ethical sales and business growth

Martin Stellar - Coach & Consultant for ethical sales and business growth

Terrible, Terrible Assumptions – the Day I Snapped

It’s not easy to anger me.

Years of meditation help a lot.

But the day I walked into my bedroom and saw a big fat cat turd right in the middle of my pillow, I snapped.

That damn cat, where was he!

I stomped off to the living room, determined to give him a very firm talking to indeed.

Third time he’d done this – twice in the guest room, and now on my own bed?

The little bleeder… stomp stomp.

“Smokiebowie!” I thundered.

Stomp stomp.

Smokiebowie (what? I like giving my cats weird names) knew what was up, and pelted off, hiding under the bed.

The same bed where he had done his business, no less!

Honestly, the gall…

I stomped after him into the bedroom, slammed the door shut, and fell on my hands and knees.

He cowered in the corner, hissing at me.

I dove under the bed, grabbed him by the nape of his neck, and dragged him out.

And proceeded to tell him off.

(I don’t hit creatures, so I didn’t hurt him or anything – but I sure did tell him everything my angry little mind could think of, about how a cat ought to behave and how angry I was).

I was irate and irrational. Angry.

He looked me in the eye – afraid and (I thought) guiltily.

We didn’t talk much the rest of the day.

And the next day…

Oh man, I still feel horrible and ashamed about it.

The next day, just as I was walking in the door, I saw an ugly old tomcat race through the living room, into the guest room, and I heard the window rattle as he forced himself out through the crack.

And my heart broke.

My tiny little furry friend – I had gotten so angry with him, when in reality he had nothing to do with it.

It had been that nasty stray that had come in, probably to bully my buddy, and to invade his territory.

This, an embarrassing example of how terribly wrong we can be when we assume things.

So how does that relate to selling art?

Well, there’s a reason that we have science and reason.

There’s a ton of sense in knowing, rather than assuming.

Because the things we assume, I’m pretty sure we’re most all the time wrong about them.

When sales aren’t happening, don’t assume you know why – get investigative about it instead.

When someone looks at your painting and walks on – don’t assume it’s too expensive: ask the guy or gal.

When your site isn’t converting, don’t assume you need more traffic: ask yourself if it’s set up for conversions.

When a gallery or expo turns you down, don’t assume your work isn’t good enough – try to figure out if you’re the right match, and if there are other venues that would pick you up.

Another one?

One that tons of artists fall prey to?

Assuming that if your work doesn’t sell, you need to lower your prices.

Assumptions suck.

But thinking, analysing, and above all: listening – that rocks.

That tells you something that you can work with.

Maybe not with certainty, but enough to test and see what works.

That’s why the next LEAP newsletter is about exactly how to not assume, but listen, ask, test, and iterate.

And, yes: sell.

And it’s going to include business lessons and sales tips from one of the worlds best self-help/business teachers ever.

Deadline is tomorrow, so go here to sign up on time –>



If My Grandmother Had Wheels, She Would Have Been a Bike

The Italian chef looks on intently, as the British TV show hosts taste his carefully prepared dish.

They liked it, to be sure.

But then the female presenter says:

“This is really nice. If it would have some ham in it, it would almost be like British carbonara”.

The chef, flabbergasted but not missing a beat, retorts:

“If my grandmother had wheels, she would have been a bike!”

The hosts choke on their bites, and general hilarity ensues.

What is that anyway – ‘British carbonara’…?

For shooks.


What the lady did there is common, and it’s something that can trip you up badly.

I call it the ‘if-then fallacy’.

It goes like this:

If my social media following would be more responsive, then I could sell more art.

Or: if people would be willing to pay higher prices, I could raise my rates.

If here wouldn’t be an economic crisis, then I wouldn’t have to work a dayjob.

If-then is wrong.

It should be: If-that means.

As in:

If my social media following isn’t responsive, that means I need to grow it/filter it/otherwise figure out why.

If people so far aren’t paying higher prices, it means I need to find other venues/audiences so that I can raise my rates.

If there’s an economic crisis, that means I need to identify the people who can still afford quality art, find them, and connect with them.

See, the way you think, look at things, and especially the assumptions you make:

That’s what decides your success.

And the big problem with blaming a circumstance is that it leaves you powerless and disenfranchised.

Instead, take responsibility.

Drop the ‘if-then’ fallacy, and work consciously with the ‘if-that means’ model.

Others do it, and they’re making a great success out of it.

Required: lots of listening, self-analysis, and radical scrutiny of your attitudes and thought-processes.

Optional, but highly recommended: the next LEAP, in which we’ll dive very deep into how to be systematic about your art business and the choices you make.

Plus, a good number of ‘if-that means’ strategies that you can put to use right away.

Get it here before the deadline tomorrow –>



Thus Spoke Zarathustra

Yesterday I mentioned something called asha.

It’s a term used by a guy called Zarathustra, a Persian prophet from way back when.

Nietsche wrote about him in his book ‘Thus spoke Zarathustra’.

Now you know that I don’t discuss religion (or politics) but the word asha is very useful to how you run your business.

Because if you don’t understand it, and don’t make use of it, things can get real tough.

And I’m living proof.

After I left the monastery, my dad passed away and left me about $150K.

So I thought I could set up as a travelling tailor, backed by my funds.

But for several reasons that was not the right choice.

It wasn’t in asha, so to speak.

For one thing, I just didn’t have the experience (or indeed the marketing skills) to make it a success.

But I didn’t care, didn’t read the signs, didn’t listen to life, and thus my inheritance dwindled away in just a few years.

So let’s have a look.

One of the many definitions of asha is ‘the natural course of things’.

Which is a lot simpler than it sounds.

Think of gravity, for instance. That’s just a natural thing.

The asha of an object is to fall.

So trying to go against that is going to take energy: you have to burn calories to keep it in the air.

Action/reaction is another facet of asha.

Between people, for example.

If you’re gruff to someone when you meet them, they’ll naturally shy away, raise a barrier.

Whereas if you smile and say hi, they’ll be much more likely to respond in kind and be open to you.

And then there’s the question of input and results.

The effort you make, what kind of result does that bring you?

For example, you could go cold-calling galleries, but would that be in asha?

It’s easy enough to find out:

Give it a try, spend a day on the phone, and see what it brings you.

If you get picked up then maybe it was in harmony with life.

See, you don’t want to be swimming upstream.

It’s hard work and you might not get anywhere.

It’s much easier to go along with the current.

This is why it’s a good idea to listen to life, to find out what the currents are like, and how to get the most results from your efforts.

You know, avoiding churn.

Instead of forging on blindly, exerting yourself in strategies that aren’t the most effective, willing life to conform itself to your wishes…

Why not listen to life, see what it tells you?

The more you are in tune, the easier things will get.

This is one reason why I always say that effective marketing strategies start with fun.

If you decide to use Facebook because everyone else says you should, but you strongly dislike the platform, it’s an uphill battle, and it’s not likely that you’ll stick with it long enough to make it work.

How to make this work in a practical sense?

As in, create small tests of effort, so as to quickly determine what will and won’t be worth larger input?

That’s going into the next LEAP.

Get yours here –>



I Need Your Help

Has anyone ever said that to you?

How did it feel?

Provided the asker is kindred in some way or other, it probably feels pretty ok to be asked to help.

And even if it’s a complete stranger asking you to help push-start his car or something like that, it’s a good, normal, and pleasant thing to get the question.

And giving the help or lending the hand – well that’s just a normal thing in life, isn’t it?

In fact, helping others is a fantastic way to increase your own happiness and well-being.

Altruism is considered the best way to become happy.

But let’s turn it around.

What about you?

Do you ask for help?

Quite often, I hear people say that they don’t like to ask for help.

Or have difficulty with it.

That they live with the idea that they are independent and autonomous, and shouldn’t have to rely on other people’s help.

But that don’t fly.

Nobody is an island, we all get help in some way or form.

If you read a book and get a useful idea out of it, that’s help being given you, right there.

So you might think that you’re on your own, but you’re not.

Nor should you be, or want to be.

There’s a lot of sense in asking for help.

It’s useful and important for many reasons.

For one thing, it gives the person you ask a chance to do something good, which enables them to be more happy and fulfilled.

Not a small thing, you’ll agree.

But it also means that you take a position in which you’re vulnerable.

Saying you don’t know it all, that you need help, that’s incredibly healthy.

If only for the fact that thinking we can do it all on our own, with no help from anyone, is a pretty arrogant stance.

Besides, it’s courageous to dare to be vulnerable – and that’s attractive.

And it’s something that builds your own confidence too.

Asking for help isn’t just an option: it’s part of life.

And if you refuse to do it, or are too afraid to do it, you’re going against the grain.

It creates the wrong kind of resonance.

In other words, it’s not natural – it doesn’t jibe with asha, the natural flow of things.

Because asking for help just is part of being human.

So I say don’t be afraid to ask for help.

You’re not expected to have all the answers.

You weren’t meant to do it all on your own.

And you’ll find that if you ask, it can have all kinds of wonderful effects.

Much more on how this works, what to ask, and of whom, in the next LEAP newsletter.

She flies to the printer in a few days, and you can sign up for it here –>



How to, and How to Absolutely Not Sell

Our tourist guide took us to a tannery in Fes.

At the door he introduced us to an employee who would show us round the business.

“I am Said. I will take care of you”.

I didn’t particularly like his sly look, but we followed him up the steps.

On the roof he showed us the basins where they still cure and dye hides with natural processes.

Explained how it all works, and then took us down into the showroom.

Row after row of coats, vests, and yes: leather bags.

But none of the bags were to my mother’s liking.

So he took us to another room. More bags, none very attractive, or indeed well-made.

Another room, and another one, and one more (this place was huge!)

When we had seen every showroom in the building, and Said had become increasingly pushy, we ended up at the front door, where we expected to find our guide.

But our guide wasn’t there.

“He’s having tea, I will call him for you. Come with me first, I want to show you more.”

We declined, but he started down an alleyway, on to yet another showroom.

“Come, come! You must see this!”

We’d had enough, truly. And we were hungry.

We just wanted to reconnect with your guide and get some good food.

Grudgingly he took us back to the front door and disappeared into a room.

Out came our guide.

As we walked off, Said called after us: “They are hungry! They want to eat!”

Clearly highly displeased that he hadn’t been able to sell any of his products on us, and petulantly, snidely, deriding us.

I shivered, shaking off the energy of his poor salesmanship.

I felt kind of dirty, after being exposed to him.

This is definitely not the way to sell.

In fact, it’s not selling, it’s forcing people. And it feels real bad on them.

Compare that to the Kelim salesman.

After a tour through the place, where we saw a loom built hundreds of years ago still being used, he took us into the showroom and sat us down.

“Would you like some tea? It’s Berber tradition, that when you are in my house, you drink tea.

“Morrocan whiskey, we call it”.

As we sipped the sweet minty stuff, he started pulling out his rugs.

Beautiful stuff too, one after another.

He joked with us, explained the different styles, which natural dyes are used, how his company is a cooperative that pays weavers fair prices.

More rugs, more information and jokes and genuinely pleasant interaction.

He made a few quips in Dutch, even.

Sure he wanted to sell us a rug or two.

He’s in business, isn’t he?

But here’s the thing:

He made it fun for us.

He genuinely cared about our experience, and he did everything he could to have us enjoy the process.

We weren’t in the market for a rug, but just because I liked the guy, I decided to buy two small ones – one for my mother and one for myself.

We haggled about the price, sealed the deal, and I paid.

I gave him a strategic sentence in Dutch, one that’s helpful if you’re trying to sell something.

He carefully repeated it, and wrote it down.

Then asked my about my job.

“I teach artists how to sell”.

He slapped his hand to his forehead and laughed: he knew he’d met his match and respected me for how it had all gone down.

We parted with handshakes, smiles, and two rugs.

Now look at what happened there.

We didn’t want rugs, didn’t need any.

But we ended up buying two of them anyway, just because the seller was aware that without a pleasant buying experience a sale won’t happen.

That’s what can happen if you truly care about the buyer.

So how do you do it?

What do you do to make it fun for your people to be marketed to?

What can you come up with to make the experience fun and interesting for them?

Learn the tactics and strategies to make selling art fun, in the monthly LEAP art marketing newsletter –>



Why You're Not Doing Better: Every System is Perfect

Read this the other day in a book by Steve Chandler:

Every system is perfect for the results it gets.

Stop a second, and think about it.

You might wonder why you’re stuck, or why your art won’t sell at higher prices.

You might not understand how less talented artists get better results and better money than you.

You might work like mad, constantly connecting and getting your name out there – and STILL it just isn’t working.

And all that can cause doubt, and might even lead you to wonder if there’s something wrong with you.

Or worse, if you art might not be worth it.

But that’s not what’s happening.

When you don’t get the results you know you ought to be getting, the most likely culprit is the system you’re using.

Or indeed, not having your system clearly defined and mapped out.

Because whether or not you know it, you have a system.

As per Merriam-Webster:

System: a regularly interacting or interdependent group of items forming a unified whole

So yeah, you too have a system for your art business, whether you know it or not.

And, the results you get are a direct result of that system.

So if you consider that every system is perfect for the results it gets, it’s only logical that you need to modify your system in order to get different and better results.

But that can be difficult, because in the system called ‘your art business’, there are many moving parts.

Your mind, your audience, offline and online contacts, competitors, the art industry at large, the entertainment industry scientifically working to steal attention away from real art – are you dizzy yet?

So where do you start?

What needs to change in your system?

Impossible to tell without a full analysis.

Or is it?

See, there’s different way to look at systems and results, independent of the dry and analytical approach.

It has to do with mindset, psychology, observation, and mostly: listening.

Listening to what, you ask?

Basically, everything.

Which tells you nothing useful at all, I know.

But read the next LEAP, and you’ll have your head firmly wrapped around what to listen to and how to react and modify your systems.

Hint: Zarathustra had something to do with it.

Anyway, sign up for the November LEAP here –>



Am I Really That Crazy?

I don’t know, you tell me.

I’m in Africa, never been here before, meeting people and seeing things and having a tremendous time…

And yet, I’m working.

Wtf Martin, are you really that crazy?

Is there no offtime for you?

Oh yes, there sure is.

But there’s a couple of good reasons why I’m still
working, even if it’s only my daily email and a replying to the most urgent emails that come in.

For one thing, to show you something, namely: business goes on, even if you’re on holidays.

Which doesn’t mean you can’t take time off – just that you need to make sure you have things in place to keep working while you’re not working.

For me, that’s the daily email.

That’s something so easy and so fast, now that I’ve been doing it for almost two years, that it literally takes me less than 20 minutes a day.

So I don’t consider it work – rather, it’s maintenance activity.

Aside from that, there’s the fact that yes, business goes on even if I’m not working.

Sure it would be fun to just completely disconnect, have 100% downtime while I’m away.

But actually?

I don’t want to.

Not fully.

Because I’m in the business of being a fixture in your life, and that doesn’t just stop when I stop.

Of course I could have pre-written my dailies, and scheduled them to go out automatically.

But that’s not how I work.

These emails, they’re baked fresh daily.

Pre-writing them just wouldn’t be the same.

For you, perhaps – you might not notice the difference.

But it’s exactly this ‘getting down to it daily’ that is the core of my work.

And that’s why I’d rather miss the odd one out, like last week, instead of having them all pre-written and set up for send in advance.

I need to stay in this groove, you see.

It’s how I work, how I live my life.

And then there’s another thing, something I need to show you.

And it’s really really important.

See, right now I’m at the Rabat train station, and our train to Fes is delayed.

Well ain’t that just perfect?

I had no idea what I was going to write today, had not had a chance yet, and whoops: suddenly there’s a 40 minute void in my day.

What better to do than to grab my laptop and rap out a little message to you?

It’s perfect.

And that’s another lesson today: you might be really busy.

I believe it when you say your days are frigging full.

But even in days like that, you’ll find small slots, tiny spaces of vacuum.

And to be more effective and more efficient in your art business, it’s exactly a matter of making use of those when you have the chance, that you get to put in small but important bits.

Could be jotting down a writing idea in a notebook.

Maybe a quick sketch of something you want to paint.

Reviewing your calendar, or perhaps simply tweeting a bit while standing in line at the supermarket.

There’s more time in the day than you think.

And while those slots might seem like downtime, they usually aren’t because you feel unproductive.

That’s why I prefer to use those.

That way, I get to have more, and actual, offtime – which means I enjoy it more and I get more rest from it.

Your mileage may vary.

But I say it’s worth your time (get it?) to look at it, and see how you treat your time.

Anyway, learn the ins and outs of this kind of thinking for your business, in the monthly LEAP newsletter –>



What to Do When Life Gets in the Way

Tell me if this sounds familiar.

It’s a lovely Monday, you’re rested and up early, and you’re raring to get to work.

Maybe start a new painting, or write your artist’s statement, or finally make those tweaks to your website…

You’ve just mixed your paint/fired up your computer, and then life happens.

First, the phone rings: your sister is having problems with her husband and really needs to talk to you.

Two hours later you get off the phone, only to see your husband coming home from work early.

Acting as if he has been beset by the plague and only has a few days left.

Diagnosis: man-flu.

You brew him some chicken soup and finally head back to your studio.

Right then, the doorbell: your neighbour holding a grass-stained, torn, and very expensive-looking dress.

That dog again, that damn dog.

Neighbour appeased, compensated and gone, you look at the clock:

3PM. You wonder if it even makes sense to get back to work, and after a half-hearted half hour, you figure you might as well call it quits.

Those groceries ain’t gonna be buying themselves.

Meanwhile, from the bedroom you hear your husband coughing what sounds like death-throes that would make the best Shakespeare actor jealous.

Something similar happened to me over the weekend.

Not that I have a husband, or a wife, and neither did I have man-flu.

What? It was a real bad cold! Sheesh.

But between having my mother over from Holland, working on a friend’s website, and an event at the La Conca arts club, I just couldn’t get my work done.

Which means you still don’t know why I’m throwing out a stupid cheap special offer.

Working on it now, stay tuned for more info.

Meanwhile: it’s the deal where you get me to rewrite a page for you, as well as a custom site optimisation report.

About that: I said you need to have some traffic coming into your site, and someone wrote back ‘It ain’t for me, I only get 30 people a day’.

Ah but, that’s terrific, see.

30 a day isn’t world-shocking, but it’s 900 visits a month.

If you get better copy, and optimise your site, you could end up with anywhere from 10 to 100 signups per month.

Of course that depends on the source and quality of your traffic, but I’ll bet you see more conversion than you do now, if you let me loose on your site.

And this is the answer to what to do when life gets in the way:

You prepare yourself beforehand, so that when things go wrong, your business keeps on rolling.

Having your site optimised for conversion means that you keep building your list (and therefore your business), even if you’re on time-out.

More details later today, but for now: hit reply if you’re getting traffic, and you want it to convert.



An Important Lesson I Learned While Building a yacht With Robert Redford

Ok, we’re not talking about THE Robert Redford, but my friend with the same name.

And I wasn’t building a yacht with him, but just helping him get the new rudder down from his home workshop to the yacht he’s constructing.

He lives in La Caleta, the next village over.

It’s a small fisherman’s town, and it consists of narrow streets that sharply climb up the rock by the sea.

Think San Francisco but curvier, narrower, and much steeper.

The rudder is as thick as my fist, taller than I am, and probably weighs 100 kg.

Not something you’re going to carry.

So Robert had fashioned two little trolley planks with wheels under, so as to cart the thing down the hill.

But instead of creating a slot on them in which the rudder could sit, and instead of strapping the thing down onto them tight, he just put the rudder on the trolleys, cursorily wrapped some rope around it all, and off we went.

Needless to say, the rudder kept sliding off the planks, and they kept turning left and right under it, because of the irregular street surface.

In other words: it took ten times longer than necessary, was far more difficult to get done, and caused one of the wheels to ride over my foot.

You know how Abe Lincoln reportedly said that ‘If I have 6 hours to cut down a tree, I’ll spend 5 sharpening my axe’?


Proper preparation makes everything SO MUCH easier.

I honestly don’t understand why he didn’t just take 20 minutes to rig a setup that would be stable, and free of any slip ‘n slide.

Can you imagine what it’s like to stand on a 25% slope, sweating in the sun, using your groin to prevent a 100 kg slab of wood from rolling down a hill, while fumbling with rope that hadn’t been tied down properly?

It’s not only no fun, it’s dangerous too.

So here’s the lesson:

Whatever you set out to do, prepare yourself.

Look at your goal, the road ahead, the assets that you have at your disposal, and then ask yourself:

“What can go wrong? What if this happens, what if that doesn’t work?

“What eventualities would destroy my progress, or my business?”

Then strap everything down, buy fire extinguishers, pump up your tires – do whatever you need to do in order to prevent those possible risks from taking you out of business.

In other words: prepare yourself.

If not, the slightest bump in the road can – well you get the picture. I’m just lucky the thing didn’t slide off and land on my toes.

So, here’s one fantastic preparation for your business:

Optimising your website for conversion, and rewriting your signup page or about page so that people actually take action.

I’ll give you a custom report that tells you in detail how to do the first, and I’ll do the rewriting for the second, for only $159.

A very – VERY – special offer.

I was going to tell you the reason for this offer today, but I couldn’t get to setting up the page where I explain it, because Robert called me to ask for help.

Will try to do it tomorrow.

In the meantime, hit reply if you want a page rewrite+custom made conversion report at a no-brainer discount.

Just one more thing: I understand that even with that reduced price it’s too much for some people, and I regret that.

Maybe you want to, but can’t.

But if you think you don’t need a site and copy that converts, or you don’t see how investing in expert help is going to improve your business, then you’re seriously missing the point.

You have no business if you don’t get sales, and you simply can’t increase sales if you don’t grow your list.

So if you’re getting traffic, but people aren’t signing up, then get this help from me.


Just hit reply.



Utterly Useful Interview on How to Find Highly Targeted Art Buyers Offline

Audio version: (to download, right-click and ‘save as)

Full video interview:

To learn more about Marketing Tools for Artists, check out Owen’s site:

And this is what a reader had to say about the interview:

“I’ve been wanting to tell you how wonderful the interview is with Owen.

It had so much good info, that I’m determined to sit down with a pen to take notes the third? time around.

By the time I get to the end, there are so many ideas stirring, it’s hard to remember the finer points.

Thank you so much for that; you did a great job on the interview.

His attitude about art and business is definitely one worth adopting!”

~ Joanna Ralston


Ever hear of Owen Garratt? He’s famous for selling $1mln worth of art in one year, without the use of external galleries.

Who says an artist can’t live from their art, hm?

I’ve just received the link to the video interview I did with him last week, and you gotta watch this.

No, but seriously. It’s good.

It’s my second installment in the Art Marketing Experts Interview series, and did I mention it’s real good?

You’ll hear:

• Why Owen is proof that can’t ever let up on your promotion efforts – but if you keep it up, you can earn well – or even very well indeed

• Owen’s tried and tested, systematic approach for showing up in front of the right people over and over again

• Why you must keep being active and stay ahead of the changes

• Why for some artists the actual art making is less than 10% of being in business as an artist, and why that’s ok because:

• Artists need to understand that the marketing is every bit as creative as making art

• After all, creativity is the ability to solve a problem

• You’ll hear Owen explain why the promotion of art is about education, validation and communication

• An interesting thought: why the artist is the bridge between the art and the buyer

• Why Owen believes in personal responsibility

• Getting in front of the right people – including OPA (other people’s audience)

• Why you need to figure out ‘who you are’ so that your message is clear

• How you can tap into memories and find the right audience

• Why Owen thinks luck is a mix of preparation and hard work

• How to use different venues to build relationship and a list

• Why marketing and courtship are almost the same (I’ve said that too)

• How to use a drawbox to sell your art

• How to use an email drop to build your list

• How to give away your art without devalueing it and get more sales that way (I hadn’t thought of that yet)

• Why and how Owen uses a newsletter pounce

• Why you absolutely don’t want to have something for everyone

• How to earn money from upsells with frames, and how that works out cheaper for the buyer than if they’d go to a professional framer

• Why you don’t need to show your entire inventroy

• How to be the right artist, with the right art, at the right time, in the right environment

• Think like a buyer: why and when are people looking to buy what kind of art

• Why commerce isn’t free and why that’s a good thing

• Why you must show up so you can interact with the buyer directly

• Why you get more results the more systematic you get, and why being systematic isn’t boring: it’s liberating!

• Why you shouldn’t subsidise the decorating budget of other businesses

• Why Owen prefers to avoid galleries, because you still need to bring the audience – but you don’t get to own the list

• Why you should never be the beta tester for any venue or event. Ever.

• Why you need to find the right facet of the gem that you are, so that you get to be more interesting

• But, without having to make a documentary about yourself

Yes, it’s a lot.

In fact, the dude was on fire, and I had to cut him short after two hours because he can talk the legs off a donkey.

The good thing though is that almost everything he says is smart, useful, and tested.

So, grab a cup or glass of your fav, and enjoy this interview with Owen Garratt.

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